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- Path: goanna.cs.rmit.EDU.AU!not-for-mail
- From: ok@goanna.cs.rmit.EDU.AU (Richard A. O'Keefe)
- Newsgroups: alt.culture.usenet,alt.usenet.kooks,biz.comp.accounting,comp.databases,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.software.licensing,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.soviet
- Subject: Re: <libel>
- Date: 12 Feb 1996 18:16:54 +1100
- Organization: Comp Sci, RMIT, Melbourne, Australia
- Message-ID: <4fmph6$8d9@goanna.cs.rmit.EDU.AU>
- References: <joe.482@schonberg>
- NNTP-Posting-Host: goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au
- NNTP-Posting-User: ok
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-
- BWAHAHAHAHA@USENET (USENET HUMOR ADMINISTRATION) writes about a recent
- situation and talks about the law.
-
- In fact the distinction between slander and libel is not very clear.
- For example, training a parrot to say rude things about someone has
- been held to constitute libel.
-
- For an amusing and frightening introduction to libel, take a look at
- the essays
- "The linguistics of defamation"
- "Trench-mouth comes to Trumpington Street"
- by Geoffrey K. Pullum, which can be found in his book
- The Great Eskimo Vocabulary Hoax
- ISBN 0-226-68534-9
-
- It's a very funny book. Let me quote from pp 94-95
-
- It would be reasonable for someone who had heard of libel
- informally, and had read a few newspaper reports of cases,
- to have formed something like the following view of what
- is involved in a libel:
-
- 1. The act of libelling involves writing down words in
- a natural language.
- 2. The words are apprehended and understood by some other person,
- the libelled person, who has grounds for objecting to their content.
- 3. The utterance contains some expression that refers to
- the libelled person.
- 4. The libeller intended the words to refer to the libelled person.
- 5. The utterance was issued in some nonconfidential form, published
- or addressed to people other than the libelled person.
- >>> 6. Some claim the utterance makes about the libelled person is false.
- 7. The utterance has some intended interpretation in the context
- under which its claim reflects discredit on the libelled person.
- 8. The facts in the context that make the utterance defamatory of
- the libelled person are known to the libeller.
- 9. The facts in the context that make the utterance defamatory of
- the libelled person are known to the libelled person.
- 10. The libellous utterance has the form of a declarative sentence
- that makes some claim about the libelled person.
- 11. The libeller believes that the utterance asserts something
- unfavourable about the libelled person.
- 12. The libelled person believes that the utterance asserts
- something unfavourable about him/her.
- 13. The publication of the libellous utterance caused some kind
- of damage to the libelled person.
-
- The legally sophisticated might spot that some of these conditions
- do not have to hold in a libel case. What relatively few people
- realised, however, is that under the English law (which at root
- provides the case-law basis used by the American courts too)
- NOT A SINGLE ONE
- of this baker's dozen of claims need hold.
-
- Naively, it seems fantastic that a libel action might technically
- be brought without any words being written; or (if there are words)
- without the libelled person being referred to in the libellous
- words; OR WITHOUT THE UTTERANCE SAYING ANYTHING FALSE; or without
- anything that either the libeller or the libelled regard as offensive;
- or without any attempt to let the libel be seen by a third party.
- Yet all these things are so in English law.
-
- Whether the same is the case under American law is a very difficult
- question---at least fifty different difficult questions, in fact,
- because every state has different statutes and definitions. ...
- Note also that civil libel, criminal libel, slander, and
- malicious (notlibellous) falsehood are all distinct topics.
-
- Now, Pullum did do quite a bit of homework before writing that essay.
-
- In fact, I don't dare say anything at all about the person bringing the
- libel case that this thread is about, because to quote the essay again
-
- Could even the exact opposite of a libellous statement be held
- libellous on the grounds that it had an ironical interpretation?
- Yes again. Words of praise and approbation have been held
- defamatory in numerous cases ...
-
- The morass of case law that has built up this almost unbelievable
- situation places very few limits on rich plaintiffs who wish to
- sue over something they have taken exception to. Almost anything
- anybody says is likely to be defamatory under some construal.
-
- Take warning then. The truth of the claims that have allegedly been made
- in the case that is the subject of this thread MAY NOT BE A SUFFICIENT DEFENCE.
- I take NO position about the merits of either side, not being in a position
- to have an informed opinion. I intend no reference to any person (except to
- Geoffrey Pullum, in thanks and praise). The whole point of this posting is
- to say that libel law is a horrifying can of worms and anyone except the
- people involved would be well advised to keep clear.
-
- >First, an absolute defense in libel cases is truthfulness of
- >defendant's statements in question.
-
- I am sorry, but this is wrong.
-
- If it is true that someone has been vilified by others,
- and electing someone kook of the month hardly counts as unqualified praise,
- then "stating this true fact" *CAN* "be considered libel by courts".
- To republish or direct attention to someone else's libel could quite
- reasonably be construed as libellous. To imagine otherwise is dangerous.
-
- >Hence, known actors, politicians and so on are public persons.
-
- It might be difficult to establish that someone who posts to the net
- is therefore a public person. And if this WERE established, it would
- probably apply to all of us, which might not be a desired result.
-
- --
- "conventional orthography is ... a near optimal system for the
- lexical representation of English words." Chomsky & Halle, S.P.E.
- Richard A. O'Keefe; http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/~ok; RMIT Comp.Sci.
-